On Why Doudou Wrote "Betrayal" — A Dialogue Between the Author of "Betrayal" and Her Editor

Originally published in Woodpecker (Zhuomuniao), Issue 2000.6

After the full-length novel Betrayal was serialized as a Special Recommendation in Issues 1-4 of this magazine, it provoked widespread reaction. Over 20 film and television companies competed for the adaptation rights. One reader commented: "I haven't read a novel this good in many years." At the same time, another reader demanded: "Using so much space on this kind of unconventional novel — isn't that a waste?" What most readers were interested in, however, was: How did Betrayal surface? And who is the author?
Here, editors Zhang Xi and Meng Yilin had a conversation with the author, Doudou. Their candid dialogue may provide some answers to readers' questions.

Yi — Meng Yilin
Zhang — Zhang Xi
Dou — Doudou

Yi: Why did you write a work like this?
Dou: Anyone who picks up a pen has been moved by an impulse to express thoughts, viewpoints, or intentions — I'm no different. On the other hand, writing compels me to pay more deliberate attention to society and people, thereby broadening my knowledge and enriching my life, with the possibility of gaining some sense of accomplishment through the process.

Zhang: Given your age and background, how could you produce such a work?
Dou: I think what you mean is that the subject matter of the work is quite remote from my actual living environment. To answer this question, I must mention a close friend of mine, Li Hongying. I met Sister Li through work when I was seventeen. Her worldview, values, personality, character, and way of thinking all had a significant influence on me. After she settled in Europe in 1990, she continuously sent me vast quantities of material for reflection, and every time she returned to China she told me about aspects of social life I'd never encountered. This enabled me to observe and evaluate things using a different, non-traditional mode of thinking.

Yi: Is the protagonist based on a real person? Why did you create this kind of male lead?
Dou: The protagonist is of course fictional — a character imagined based on life and personal understanding, arising from the needs of the story and theme. Creating this kind of male protagonist inevitably involves women's evaluation of and expectations for men, as well as men's and women's social positions — not something that can be expressed in a single sentence. At the very least, this male protagonist embodies my understanding of what a "man's image" can be.

Zhang: Share your understanding of the female protagonist?
Dou: The social role of women is a perennial topic. Theory has its version, life has its version. I once tried to give the female protagonist complete autonomous consciousness and rights, but life wouldn't allow it — and perhaps the female protagonist herself wouldn't either. For instance, regarding her ending, it's very difficult to separate it from the male protagonist's fate. There is a question of a life's supporting pillar. This doesn't mean she couldn't survive without that man — there are deeper, more complex reasons, including emotional ones, matters of values, and so on. From my personal understanding, if I didn't shatter some things and lay them bare before the reader, would it affect the thematic message of the work? That was my concern.

Yi: Was there any particular background to writing this work?
Dou: I began writing in June 1995 and spent over two years completing the manuscript in August 1997. Apart from the social climate at the time giving me things I wanted to express, there was no other personal background. I felt a creative impulse, and I wrote.

Zhang: Relative to traditional fiction, is this work itself a kind of betrayal?
Dou: I've always considered myself a rather traditional person, including in my writing methods and formats, which are fairly conventional. I had not the slightest intention of betrayal, so I don't consider this work a betrayal of traditional fiction.

Yi: Did you invest your own thoughts in the female protagonist?
Dou: I imagine there's some of that, consciously or unconsciously, but it can't be answered with a simple yes or no. The female protagonist has her specific life background and cultural depth. Her behavior and thoughts follow trajectories uniquely her own. Although I shaped her according to my understanding, and although there are things I unconsciously imposed on her, the starting point still had to rest on the female protagonist's own existential foundation.

Yi: If the male protagonist had a different ending, would it be easier to accept?
Dou: The question of whether the male protagonist should die has tormented me from beginning to end. From my personal wishes, I liked this character and didn't want him to die, but there was no solution — nothing seemed to work. Setting aside the character's personal psychological endurance, from a legal perspective alone, his crimes warranted not imprisonment but execution. Personally, aside from feeling very sad about this character's fate, I truly couldn't think of a better alternative.

Zhang: What shortcomings do you see in the work?
Dou: It would be more accurate to replace "shortcomings" with "failures." Looking at the work now, there is too little direct presentation, and too much conveyed through oblique strokes, indirect writing, and interpolation. Beyond that, the work contains numerous other problems, such as the selection of life's cross-sections still being somewhat inappropriate. As for the fundamental guiding principles behind creating this work, I dare not speak presumptuously here — my intentions were certainly good. I hope that in future works I can gradually overcome these problems and make progress.

Yi: Can you share a bit about yourself?
Dou: I was born in 1970. I have a high school education and am currently an ordinary factory worker. I have a husband with whom I can share a lifetime. I was 25 when I began writing Betrayal.

Zhang: Is there a master figure standing behind you?
Dou: I'd rather not answer that question.

Yi: What is your strongest feeling right now?
Dou: I'm grateful to Woodpecker magazine and the Masses Publishing House for giving me this opportunity and support. That is my strongest feeling right now.

Han Ming's Introduction and Evaluation of Doudou

Doudou is the author of the TV series Betrayal and Tiandao (Heavenly Way), and is an extremely low-profile person. For some time now, readers and netizens have frequently contacted this newspaper seeking information about Doudou — the bestselling author who emerged from the petroleum industry and became famous through Betrayal and Salvation (The Distant Savior). Our petroleum industry newspaper reporter searched extensively and after many twists and turns finally found Mr. Han Ming, whom Doudou calls her teacher and who currently serves as Vice Chairman of the China Petrochemical Corporation Writers' Association. The reporter expressed the wish to interview Doudou, but Chairman Han found it difficult to decline. He then contacted Doudou, who politely indicated she would not accept interviews. Under the reporter's persistent questioning, Chairman Han offered a brief introduction of Doudou's background.

Reporter: There is virtually no information about Doudou available online. Could you give us a brief introduction?

Han Ming: First, let me state that regarding this interview, I consulted Doudou's wishes. Doudou politely declined — please note, it was a decline, not a refusal. Doudou says she's not good at verbal expression and prefers quiet. I believe being low-key is the fundamental tone of how she conducts herself. I understand this aspect of Doudou's personality. Strictly speaking, what I can tell you today about Doudou represents my personal impressions only, offering a simple account of the information I know about her, for your newspaper and readers' reference only.

Doudou is a writer who emerged from our literary federation into the broader society, and I'm very pleased about that. Doudou grew up amid the transfers and migrations of petroleum work teams. Different regional cultures, the qualities of the older generation of petroleum workers, and the distinctive roughness, wildness, and spirituality of petroleum culture — all subtly influenced Doudou, benefiting her immensely. Our Petroleum Writers' Association provided a platform for displaying her literary talent, while her individual personality, qualities, hard work — combined with her own social circles and information sources — ultimately led to her achievements.

Reporter: How did Doudou's literary career begin?

Han Ming: Doudou's first novella was recommended by the Petroleum Writers' Association. In 1993, the major literary journal Novelist (Xiaoshuojia) in Tianjin published her debut novella Dying Is Easier Than Living. This work later won the Creative Writing Award at the Second China Petroleum Workers' Cultural Competition. Subsequently, we recommended Doudou for membership in the Henan Provincial Writers' Association, later transferring to the China Petroleum Writers' Association and China Petrochemical Writers' Association. This was Doudou's first mark upon entering the literary world. In a sense, the Petroleum Writers' Association devoted considerable effort to Doudou's early growth.

Reporter: Did Doudou start directly with novellas?

Han Ming: Yes, you could call this a distinctive feature of Doudou's literary creation — she essentially bypassed the short story form, which distinguishes her creative trajectory from other fiction writers. After completing Dying Is Easier Than Living, I believe she felt she'd accumulated some creative experience and then attempted novel-length fiction, which is how Betrayal came about, followed by The Distant Savior. What pleases our Writers' Association is that both works made it onto the Chinese fiction bestseller lists.

Reporter: Could you tell us about Doudou's novel writing?

Han Ming: I read both the first and second drafts of Doudou's debut novel Betrayal. It's fair to say she put tremendous effort into revising the work. The final version gave readers a refreshing experience. In 2000, Woodpecker, one of China's highest-circulation literary magazines, serialized the work in its first through fourth issues, followed by publication and distribution through the Masses Publishing House. It was later adapted into a same-named TV drama that aired nationally and generated considerable reaction.

There's an anecdote here: because Doudou was new to the literary scene and unknown, even the director of the TV drama Betrayal had difficulty finding her. Since the adaptation from novel to television required discussing themes and character interpretation with the author, the director eventually tracked me down through friends. I received Director Zhang Qian, and through that meeting we later became friends. Zhang Qian is a thoughtful director — his works Betrayal, Drawing Sword (Liangjian), Tiandao, and others are all deeply beloved by audiences, and the recently aired Peace and War in Beiping on CCTV is his latest work.

Both of Doudou's works Betrayal and The Distant Savior (Tiandao) were directed by Zhang Qian, who also personally served as screenwriter for Tiandao — indicating his high appreciation for Doudou's creative style and great affirmation of her works. I recall once while traveling for work, I saw a pirated copy of Betrayal at a street vendor's stall. It was quite interesting — having an author's book pirated shouldn't be a good thing, since the author's rights are violated, yet I was actually happy. From another angle, it demonstrated the work's popularity. In this sense alone, I hope petroleum literature can produce more works with broad social influence.

When Doudou was writing her second novel The Distant Savior, she and I had lost touch. The Writers Publishing House published the work, and it was promptly adapted into the 24-episode TV drama Tiandao, with Doudou also participating as screenwriter. When she later brought me copies of both the novel and the TV drama, I felt deeply gratified — Doudou still cherished the literary garden that had once nurtured her growth. I felt Doudou had matured considerably, with more rational elements infused into her work. I hope her future creations show continued progress.

Reporter: I've seen the phrase "Doudou phenomenon" in the annual summary of the Petroleum Writers' Association. What do you think it refers to?

Han Ming: I believe it comes down to two points. First, the subjects, plots, and characters in Doudou's novels are hard to imagine coming from someone of her age — what kind of circle does she live in? How does she interpret life and understand society? This is perhaps what people are curious and interested about. Second, Doudou's novels represent a certain experiment in combining intellectual depth with market appeal — something petroleum literature can learn from. This is perhaps what the annual summary means by the "Doudou phenomenon."

Reporter: That's right. From readers' and viewers' perspective, these questions indeed exist, and this is probably one reason people are so interested in this female author.

Han Ming: I believe that among the many factors influencing Doudou's writing, her social circle must be an important one. Everyone has their own social circle, and things too personal aren't appropriate to discuss. Doudou explicitly told me over the phone that she appreciates everyone's criticism and encouragement, and hopes her future works can show some improvement. We too look forward to her new work.

Author Doudou Reveals Her Sources of Information

Question: What kind of woman is Doudou, that she can comprehend Buddhist doctrine and morality, and how did she develop such strong logic and clear thinking?

Answer: Thank you for your compliments. I'm very ordinary, not as impressive as you imagine. Perhaps I am somewhat different from most ordinary women — I tend to prefer speculative thinking and writing. This is related to personal preference, and also related to my experiences, life, and the environment in which I grew up. But I don't consider any of that important. At the end of the day, I simply did something I like to do and that also suits me. What matters is that it has meaning — though of course, this judgment of meaning is made within my personal value system. In my view, its significance lies in the possibility that some people may enjoy my work, and that some may gain or contemplate something from it. The more they gain, the greater the meaning in my eyes. According to the most popular contemporary concept, happiness means joy plus meaning. So if you ask me what kind of woman Doudou is, I'd say: she is a woman who has found happiness — and moreover, the ultimate happiness that belongs to her alone.

As for the other questions you raised, I wonder if they can all be distilled and reframed into another question: What are your information channels? How do you extract, filter, and absorb this information?

My information sources fall into roughly these categories:

The first is textual information — newspapers, magazines, books, and a small number of academic journals in the social sciences. I say "small" because among Chinese academic publications, those that are truly readable are genuinely few — haha.

The second is exchange and conversation. I have many friends, and they too love to observe, think, and research. Quite a few of them hold original, distinctive viewpoints. It's perfectly natural that sparks fly when such people communicate and exchange ideas. Sometimes sparks even start a wildfire. For instance, some friends are devout vegetarian Buddhists, while others dismiss it entirely. When they meet, they'll debate, argue, and challenge each other's reasoning. At such moments, "reason" transforms into a new garment for some belief — the Emperor's New Clothes, as it were. It's also a bit like steelmaking — quenching, cooling, hammering, removing impurities. The result of a hundred rounds of tempering and debate is that each of us who participates gains some realization, some enlightenment.

The third is reflection. Whether through text or speech, the information it carries can only prompt awareness. You must then think and process further, thoroughly internalizing and integrating it into your own cognitive system. After that, you need to keep applying it, keep using it, refining and verifying it through practice. The former is something like rumination — hearing it, knowing it, understanding it doesn't mean it has become part of you. The latter is like treasure-hunting — having the treasure map doesn't guarantee you'll find the treasure. If the map is wrong or you can't read it, you still won't find it.

As for how to absorb? Broadly speaking, the methods are just those few: read more, observe more, think more, verify more, exchange more. There are many topics that could be discussed here — such as which books to choose, how to take notes, how to observe and verify, whom to exchange with, how to reason and debate, etc. Take the specific things you asked about: morality, Buddhist doctrine, logic, and thinking.

To ordinary people, these seem mysterious, but they're actually quite practical. The social sciences have many sub-disciplines — religious studies, ethics, logic, sociology, anthropology, political science, psychology, literature, philosophy, law, education, and so on. There are so many! Have you sought out a few books to browse and flip through? First build a systematic knowledge framework, then read biographies, memoirs, historical materials, folk customs, and related information. Then use your own knowledge system, discernment, and thinking power to deconstruct and separate the phenomena and the patterns hidden behind them.

In fact, the brilliant insights I listed in my novel The Distant Savior are not my original creations at all — they already existed. I merely strung them together on a single thread and added some other elements and components. Take the Wang Temple Village poverty alleviation as an example — the mechanism of "company plus rural household." In the academic and journalistic worlds around 2003, this was already a hot topic. Lantian Shares was thriving at the time.

Or take the villagers' self-management and self-governance model, collecting only processing fees per procedure, using petty economics to treat petty farmer mentality — that had long been a case study in Peking University's MBA organizational studies textbook, the Lou Baijin Garment Factory case. And Geli Shi's battle with Music Saint — hadn't that already appeared on screen? In The Great Dye House, Hongju versus Shanghai's Yumei Ren. Price wars, dumping, anti-dumping, market cornering, publicity stunts, knockoff products — aren't these the kind of news stories we see all the time? It's a bit like cooking — I simply gathered all the ingredients and then used different techniques to simmer them into a soup or a dish. Sometimes, to heighten the dramatic effect and emphasize personal style, I added extra seasoning and exaggerated a bit.

These are all fish — they don't count for much. What truly matters is the fishing ability — the capacity to catch fish. It's important for two reasons: first, it's hard to acquire, and scarcity makes it precious; second, once acquired, the results are significant. In my novel, I also wrote: relying on culture is of course weak culture, but does relying only on yourself and not on others necessarily make it strong culture? NO! In the scene where Lin Yufeng meets Ding Yuanying, I wrote: "What saves is not a person, but the Dao. Salvation is not the ravenous gorging of a wolf that broke its vows — it is awakening." But how does one awaken? In my view, that can only come from contemplation, thinking, and experience on one's own. Awakening is truly not easy — otherwise I wouldn't have insisted on placing the modifier "distant" before "savior" in the novel's title. Borrowing from atomic theory in physics: for an electron orbiting an atom to make a quantum leap, it needs energy. Books, information, knowledge — these are energy for our thinking. But there's a question of conversion efficiency. People with stronger thinking power will naturally have higher conversion rates.

Quantitative change isn't hard — just accumulate gradually. What's hard is qualitative change. You need talent, sensitivity, insight, imagination, rigor — along with a good mentality, high EQ, and resilience. And there's also the matter of time, experience, and life exposure. Too young, and without experience there's no realization. Too old, and everything is already branded — forging something new from that becomes difficult. Information, knowledge, patterns — these are all fish. Insight, discernment, adaptability, thinking power, judgment, logical reasoning ability, receptivity — those are the fishing skills. With those, even the Savior isn't so distant from us anymore.